Splendid: Well, just one that you like. It doesn't have to be your all-time favorite. Let's not get hung up on hierarchies.

Jeff Hanson: Well, okay, I like something as simple as ...(long pause)... this should be the easiest thing in the world, but I'm really struggling with it. Let's say, ah, "The Boxer" by Simon & Garfunkel. The entire production side of it, and the actual performance is amazing, too. A lot of people think it's overproduced. I don't know. I don't care. I like it a lot. I really like "Wouldn't It Be Nice" from Pet Sounds, too. That's probably one of my favorites.

Splendid: You also have this fascination with harmonies. That must be something that you look to the Beach Boys for, isn't it?

Jeff Hanson: Absolutely. Especially Beach Boys and Beatles. I think now it's done just for effect, you know, let's just do it to do it. But in those days, it was done as a completely different instrument. Instead of adding a guitar part here, since we're all really good singers, whether it's the Beatles or the Beach Boys or whoever, let's use harmonies. I definitely try to do that, too, to make what I'm doing vocally, whether it's harmonies or the background or whatever, to make vocals not just so much just vocals but a layer on the music -- vocals that fit into the music like another instrument. And if you can use a low vocal and then put a high one together, suddenly it makes a kind of cool sound, which I always think those older groups have done, too. For Brian Wilson or John Lennon and Paul McCartney, it wasn't so much just throwing vocals on top of a bunch of guitar playing, it was an integral part of the song. It was actually going to make the song what it is. I don't know if I see a ton of artists doing that today. Which is not to say that it's right or wrong. Maybe I stick to more of the classic sound, which is more what I get out of it.

Splendid: It must be frustrating, though, that the Beatles and the Beach Boys and Simon and Garfunkel had these massive audiences and big hits, and pop really was popular at that point, and now it's kind of a niche.

Jeff Hanson: Absolutely.

Splendid: Why do you think that is?

Jeff Hanson: I don't want to sound negative about it, but I think generally... I don't know for sure, but maybe things ride a little more on hype now than they do on actual substance. I think maybe that overshadows good quality stuff. I'm not saying that the stuff that's popular isn't good. It can be. And that's why it's receiving so much attention. But I think that pop music isn't where it was in the 1960s or 1970s, where there was kind of this one person doing one good thing after another. There was a time in radio, which I wasn't alive for and I kind of wish I had been. Here's a new Beatles song. Here's a new Stones song. Here's a new Simon and Garfunkel song. Here's a new Bob Dylan song. They were all coming out so fast. I think that the competition among all of these people must have been crazy. It was like one person listening to a masterpiece, trying to outdo it and doing something a little bit better. You know, like Bob Dylan coming out and destroying everybody, and everybody else sitting around and thinking, what are we going to do now? I think now maybe there's more of everything and maybe quality-wise it just isn't what it was. In a lot of areas, it probably is, but you have to find it. I'm sure not finding it on FM radio.

Splendid: Yeah, but to me, it seems like there's so much good music... but nobody gets to hear it.

Jeff Hanson: That's it. That's my point, too. What I mean by hype, if you turn on the radio, it'll be like, here's a new one from this band we've been hearing from for 10 years. But they're just such a staple on FM radio that they're not making room for anyone else to come in. And they're just simply like... well, this is what the people want. FM radio is telling us what we want, when that's really not what anyone wants. I think we're stuck in a rut. So I guess my point with all of that is that there is a ton of good music out there. They're just not allowing anyone to find it.

Splendid: So do you feel competitive with other songwriters?

Jeff Hanson: No.

Splendid: There's nobody you listen to and think, damn, I've got to do better than that.

Jeff Hanson: No.

Splendid: I was just watching The Kids are All Right, about The Who, and at one point somebody asks them about The Beatles, and Pete Townshend makes this really snide comment. You can tell they all knew each other and were all doing all these snarky little things...but maybe the fact that there are so many people out there now, it would be hard to have that kind of competitive relationship.

Jeff Hanson: For me, that's never really worked. I've seen it in other people, when they're upset that someone is doing better than they are. I've never really understood that. If you're in this for the right reasons, which for me would be to make records that I want to be making and that satisfy me at the end of the day, that has nothing to do with anybody else. That just has to do with going into my room with the guitar or the studio and recording and coming out with a song or a record that I like, and putting that out to people. That's me and what I do, rather than focusing on what other people are doing and how it's affecting me.

Splendid: Given that your voice is so distinctive -- it's kind delicate and high and pure and all that -- how does that influence the kind of songs you can write? Are you constrained by your instrument, so to speak, or do you find that the kind of songs you want to write and the kind of songs you can perform are mostly the same?

Jeff Hanson: I think they're generally the same thing, because I know now, because I've had the voice that I have for so long... I know what my limits are. I know what I'm capable of doing. I don't know if there's any artist out there who would say that they're completely 100 percent content with what they can do, whether it's singing or playing. There's always -- I'll listen to guys who have really good rock voices, like John Lennon or someone, and think, I have no real chance of sounding like that. I don't have the ability to get real grit in my voice, that rock sound. I'll sit back and say, well, if I could write this kind of song, I know I could write it musically, but then I'd have to sit down and try to sing it this way. It's just like someone else who might be able to write a really nice, pretty song and wouldn't be able to do that vocally -- it's the same way with me. I'd like to be able to write a real rocking one, but I'd probably be limited vocally as to what I could do with it. Or you just have to figure out a way to do it that would work. Probably everybody has to do that, I guess. Everyone has their limits of what they can do.

Splendid: That makes sense to me. I haven't heard your first album, Son, but I was wondering if you could put this one into context for me and talk about how it's different from the first one.

Jeff Hanson: I think that there's a lot more growth in the new one, just in terms of the actual songs themselves. I think the second record is kind of slowed down, maybe more of an album as opposed to Son being the songs that you wrote months before you went into the studio. And this is definitely more... these songs were all meant to go together. How they were put together in sequence was really something I thought about -- what exact order am I going to put these in? Rather than Son being more, well, I wrote these songs three months ago and I wrote these four months ago and I wrote these six months ago, because of course, you have your whole life to make your first album. But I definitely think that there are little things, like adding strings to some of the songs. There's none of that on Son. My point with this new record is definitely instead of trying to make something that when people listen to it, they're just rocking out to it, or just coming up with some cool riffs, to put out an album, more of a record that you have to sit down and listen to to get anything out of it, rather than it just being, you know, something that rocks or just entertains. I definitely don't think that this record does that. When you start it, there's definitely a mood to it. There's definitely a feeling to the whole thing.

Splendid: I was going to ask you about that, because the songs seem kind of sad and regretful and thoughtful, and I was wondering what kind of emotional space you were in when you started writing them songs. Was there something specific going on in your life?

Jeff Hanson: I think so. Yeah. Definitely. There was such a ... I don't think anything dramatic, but I definitely think that even the first album, Son has a feeling of hope and it's definitely more upbeat. With this record, it was definitely a more difficult year before going in to record it -- just different things that had happened throughout the year, and then going in to record the album was definitely a situation of me being totally alone in the studio doing this. I had an engineer there who was helping me out, but it really just was me sitting there trying to figure everything out. After a while, that really started to wear on me. I think I can tell in the songs. They were getting -- I hate to use the term darker, because I don't think they were darker, but they were definitely more moody. There was definitely a feeling that, well, I've been sitting here for four weeks, going over the songs. Not really of boredom, but...

You know, everybody's second record is always the toughest one to make, just for the fact that you want to go in a different direction. You're attempting to do something different, but at the same time you're not straying very far because budgets are probably pretty similar to what they were on the first album. You have the same amount of time to make the second one. It's very similar. But it's like this idea that as an artist, you want to do something completely different. You can't do the same record as the first time, but everything else is pretty much the same. You kind of have to work completely in a different mindset but in the same setup as the first record. So that can be difficult.

Also, I definitely think it was a different year for this record than for the one before. I didn't notice it at first, but now when I when I can really tell.

Splendid: Was it the pressure of having one album out and all the touring that you have to do to support that? Or was it more personal stuff?

Jeff Hanson: I think it was just a mix of things. I think probably most of it was stuff from myself -- just personal stuff with me. I actually think that before the recording was probably easier. Getting to the studio was when it became really difficult for me, and I think it became one of those things where at first I was like, "Oh, I really like this song," and then immediately, the next day, I was saying, "No, we're scratching that take. We're not using it." And it just got to the point where I was just getting self-conscious. Too self-conscious. And I wasn't really for the first record. Of course, you think of what you're doing and you're very aware of what's going on, but for this album, for whatever reason, I was just losing that confidence that I had always had. I didn't understand why, and it just got kind of frustrating. I don't know what's different between this one and the last one, but mentally, I didn't feel that I was in the same place, and emotionally, the recording situation was kind of different. There were other bands in the studio at the time, which was a lot of fun...

Splendid: The first one you did pretty much at your home?

Jeff Hanson: No, I did both of them in Lincoln, Nebraska. At Presto Studio... with A.J. Mogis.

Splendid: So was there all kinds of Saddle Creek stuff going on?

Jeff Hanson: Yeah, which didn't bother me. It's a big enough studio for everybody. It did add that kind of "there's other people working here, too" thing. The problem is, too, that once you get self-conscious about what you're doing or thinking too much about it, it really does hold you back.

Splendid: Oh yeah. I've had that happen -- not in writing music, but I've had that happen. It seems like you operate on the assumption that whatever you're doing will come out okay, and if you ever start doubting that assumption, you're sunk.

Jeff Hanson: Absolutely. I think that maybe it was that second record thing or maybe it was where I was in my head at that time, but by the end of it I was like, if I finish this album, it'll be amazing. It became tough... not the actual writing the songs and recording them, more like listening to what I had done and trying to separate myself from what I was listening to. I had to listen to it like, well, let's pretend that's somebody else there, and that it's not you or you get everyone out of the room and sit there and listen to it by yourself. I got kind of weirded out by it.

Splendid: But I wonder if that's a function of your working alone. If you had people to talk to, you'd probably get some sort of reassurance that it was okay.

Jeff Hanson: Well, the guy I worked with was good about that. He didn't just sit there in silence or point to his watch. He was good about it, but there was also that I-don't-want-to-overstep-my-bounds kind of thing. I think when you're the engineer -- he helped produce some of it, but when you get into the actual performance or songwriting end of it, I think at some point, you don't want to be... And I would ask, what do you want to do about this? What about this? I just think he was very polite and nice about not wanting to get into things like...you know, I don't really like when you drop into that minor chord. Because then you're like, well, who are you? What do you know about it?

Splendid: Would you like to work with a true producer at some point?

Jeff Hanson: Oh, absolutely.

Splendid: Is that a money issue? Or you haven't found the right person?

Jeff Hanson: It would be really difficult for me. I would really have to find someone who would click. I think that's such an important part of making a record. If you got in there and it was somebody who just wasn't working well -- not necessarily someone that you can't get along with, but just someone that on a music level doesn't see eye to eye... I don't even know where I'd begin with a producer. It would take a while to get used to that.

Splendid: Now, what about some of these other instruments? You mentioned that you didn't play the piano on the last album and there's a lot of piano on the new one. So unless you learned to play the piano, you must have a piano player that you worked with?

Jeff Hanson: Yeah. My soon-to-be wife, I'm getting married next week...

Splendid: Oh, nice. Congratulations.

Jeff Hanson: Thank you. She played piano on the songs of my last record, and she plays on one of the songs on this record, and then A.J. plays on the other one. At some point I'd love to learn how to play piano. It's kind of one of those things in my life that I'm not going to go the rest of my life without knowing how to play the piano. It's just a matter of sitting down and learning. I'd love to, and I'm a big piano guy. I really love the way it sounds in pop music, or in any type of music for that matter.

Splendid: What about the strings, how did that happen?

Jeff Hanson: Saddle Creek has these kind of professional string players, or rather Presto and Saddle Creek have them, and they do string work whenever Saddle Creek bands need strings. They're older professional players who will come in, so we just called them in. They just came in and did it in an afternoon.

Splendid: Did you have to write it down for them?

Jeff Hanson: Yeah. That part of it was a lot of fun. That was the other thing about this record -- if you want to try new things, it's definitely going to be more challenging. But at the same time, that was a great part about it. To go in there and say, you know what? I've never written a string part in my life. I can hear it in my head, what I want to do, but turning that dream into reality is a little tougher. So I just sat down with A.J. and went over the ideas I had on a piano, and he was really great about that. He's had a lot of training on that. He's able to sit down and say, is this what we want? I thought one of the best experiences of making the record was the strings, because I've never done that before.

Splendid: Well, now you can write a symphony.

Jeff Hanson: I'm working on that. I'm going to get into that right away. This afternoon, actually.

Splendid: Paul McCartney did that.

Jeff Hanson: Yeah, but I don't think it turned out very well.

Splendid: People don't like the Billy Joel classical either.

Jeff Hanson: No?

Splendid: I don't think so. It's hard to believe that he would mess something like that up. Tell me, what is "Losing a Year" about.

Jeff Hanson: I think that song probably deals with me, up to that point, making that record.

Splendid: That's where you lost a year?

Jeff Hanson: Yeah, because after Son came out, for whatever reason, there were tours, but I didn't feel like I got to do as much musically as I wanted to. There were different things with different booking agents, so I didn't feel like I was able to do exactly what I wanted to do for a long period of time after that record came out. A lot of that song kind of deals with what I'm doing now and what I thought about that whole time. It wasn't necessarily a bad thing. It was just kind of like, how the hell did I get here right now?

Splendid: There's this great shift right in the middle of that song. It starts out really kind of slow and sad and quiet and then you have that thing where the piano comes in and the strings, and it's almost like it's a sad title and it starts out being a sad song, but you sense a movement to something better.

Jeff Hanson: Yeah. I think so. I think that's generally... sometimes that's a weird thing with me and my song, and I think what you said is right on, because I think a song can have such a feeling right at the beginning or right in the middle or right at the end, and then very quickly, just with a few chord changes or whatever, the whole thing kind of lifts. That happens in a couple of songs. And I definitely notice it in that first song. Whereas soon as everything starts, there is that feeling of hope there. Like, it's going to be better.

Splendid: I also really like "Someone Else", which has this very 1960s folk, Nick Drake, Vashti Bunyan, very simple feel to it. What were you thinking about when you wrote that one?

Jeff Hanson: I think for that one, especially lyrically, it probably just goes to the ideas... and again, like most songwriters probably say, I'm not necessarily saying "This is me talking to my neighbor." Even if I use "I" or "me", I don't even know half the time who that is. With this one, it probably is a real personal thought for me. It's probably just the idea that the best thing for you would be to be somewhere else. To maybe realize that you're, I don't know, without trying to make it....

Splendid: There's that lyric, "All that I want for you is someone else."

Jeff Hanson: Yeah, I think that , even when I wrote it down, I thought, "oh boy." The minute I wrote it on the pad of paper, I thought, I don't even want to hear about that one. It's hard to get away with that line.

Splendid: It's funny, because it sounds like your personal life is going pretty well, if you're getting married next week, and you're writing all these very sad songs. I think that people do get caught up in the idea that the songwriter, especially somebody that writes and records and does everything, that they're singing from their personal experience.

Jeff Hanson: Yeah, and I would say that that's probably true. I don't know how that wouldn't be true. But I think generally when you write songs, people read too much into them. And it's like, "well, he said 'I', so he's got to be talking about himself." Or "He said, 'me'. It's gotta be him." And that isn't necessarily true. But I can't say that for the most of the songs on this record, that there isn't a lot of me that I'm using in my bones.

Splendid: I think also -- I've had this experience -- that you write things and they're true at the time. They're true for maybe ten minutes, but later you might feel differently. It's not like everything you say is always 100 percent true for ever.

Jeff Hanson: Absolutely. I also think that at some point, if you can, you should try to listen to Son, just to kind of get a contrast between the two.

Splendid: I'd like to.

Jeff Hanson: I think lyrically, with Son, I made a real kind of -- not that I had to tell myself, "You're going to be more direct with the next record, Jeff" -- but I did make a conscious effort to say, you know, it is you with the guitar and sometimes with Son you're using words just to get away from having to put yourself in any situation. I think with this one, I made a point of saying, you know what? Screw it. Say "I". Say "All I want for you is someone else." If that's what you're thinking and that's what you're feeling, you can do that. And I think for a lot of it, maybe the guard does come down a bit. You can hear it even in the titles. It's definitely more personal. If there is a reason that people have enjoyed singer songwriters for as long as they have, it's for that reason.

Splendid: Yeah... I think my favorite song on the album is the last one, "Something About".

Jeff Hanson: That's my favorite, too.

Splendid: I didn't get a lyric sheet. I don't know if there's a lyric sheet that will come along later.

Jeff Hanson: There will be, yes.

Splendid: ...but I was trying to figure out the lyrics, and I'm not sure I got all of them, because your voice is almost like an instrument rather than a speaking voice. It's hard to tell sometimes.

Jeff Hanson: I don't enunciate very well.

Splendid: Well, it's really beautiful, but it's hard to latch onto the words. With some songwriters, it's easier. But from what I could tell, the lyrics seemed very ambiguous. They could almost apply to any situation where you're drifting and thinking about the past and not sure what to do now. Do you like to leave things open-ended, so people can apply their own experiences?

Jeff Hanson: Absolutely. One of the things that I've always liked about music, especially being a little kid, is that I had no idea what these songs were about. To me, in my mind, it was like, oh, this song is about this. And this song is about that. I think even to go back to the Beatles, who I think were just masters of this -- using words like they're singing to you about this story, and here's a person, "Eleanor Rigby" or "Girl" or "Michelle"; I don't even know who this person is, but they're explaining it to me. It's so open that I can go anywhere with it. To me, if I listen to a song, I don't necessarily want to be told, this is about me playing football. I don't want to know that. I'd just rather have nice words that go together and you can paint a picture yourself. The song definitely has a feeling and I think whatever you want to paint into it works, too. I don't necessarily want to have to tell someone, "This is what this song is about. Don't get any other ideas." That's the great thing about music. It can go anywhere.

Splendid: Yeah... how do you feel about videos?

Jeff Hanson: About watching them or being in them?

Splendid: Oh, either way. They seem like one of those things that interpret songs for people.

Jeff Hanson: Yeah, I like them, as far as... They're nice as art. If you have a really good idea, as far as what you want to do, and it fits your song perfectly. There's a whole other avenue to travel down with your music. It's a whole other piece of art. You can say, well, I put this into song but now to actually put pictures with it is an entirely different thing. But most of the videos you see on MTV, it's like, I don't even have MTV and I haven't seen a video in a long time, but what I have seen, it's probably some big wig Hollywood guy working with way too big of a budget.

Splendid: So, I left this for last, because I didn't want you to get offended early in the interview, but... you get compared to Elliott Smith a lot...

Jeff Hanson: Oh, sure.

Splendid: Because, I think, your voices are kind of similar and you use guitar and piano, and you both write in 3/4 a lot. So, what are the most important things that differentiate your work from his?

Jeff Hanson: I would say that we're just two different people, writing from different perspectives. I mean, there's no way to say -- and even for you to say, I didn't want to offend you. There seems to be that idea. But for me, I think it would be a different thing if somebody said, I think you're doing a complete rip-off and you're terrible and you need to stop trying to be somebody else. But that isn't the case. Or at least I haven't heard that yet. You can't be a singer/songwriter, signed to Kill Rock Stars, heavily influenced by the Beatles and sing with a higher voice and be very into harmonies and melodies and not expect to get that comparison. I guess it's up to everybody else, not me, to decide what the differences are between the two of us. I think there's a million of them, but I can't explain to somebody else and say here's what the real differences are between us.

Lyrically, though, absolutely for starters. I would say, what do you think?

Splendid: I don't know. I know that when I was listening to your record, I was saying, damn, he sounds a lot like Elliott Smith. I think Elliott Smith had this very biting sense of humor that I don't sense so much in your songs. And you don't sound like him all the time. It's just occasionally. I don't know. I think it's interesting, because these comparisons, it's almost more interesting to look at the differences than the similarities.

Jeff Hanson: I think so too. I think everything that I'll hear now will sound a bit like something else. I don't know who doesn't. But to even say it with complete respect to him, for somebody to say that harmony style or whatever it is, he's a really great songwriter and to be compared to someone like him, I would take that as a compliment. I would say thank you. He's a great songwriter. Of course, I'm trying to do my thing and not sit down and say, oh, I'd like to make this song sound like this person. But definitely, I would like people to say, well, that's definitely Jeff Hanson.

Splendid: So your album is coming out in February?

Jeff Hanson: Yeah, February 22nd.

Splendid: You're getting married this weekend.

Jeff Hanson: Yeah.

Splendid: So what else is on the slate for you.

Jeff Hanson: Touring. I'm going to do SXSW in March. Yeah, the touring. That was what I was going back to before. Let me just finish my thing as far as the influences. I want to be real clear on that. No matter what happens, it's all up to the journalists. That's up to the journalists. That's up to the press. I can even tell from playing a show or running into kids. Nobody cares about that stuff. No one really seems to care. If you told me that there's this band playing in town tonight and they sound exactly like another band that I love -- I'd want to listen to their songs. I'd want to know what it is about them that makes them different. That's what I'm interested in. It seems that the press and journalists want to talk about, what about him isn't unique or what about this band shouldn't you like. That seems to be the angle that they push more than other stuff that probably should be talked about, like what about their songwriting, what about the differences?

Splendid: I also wonder, though -- what if I had a voice that was just like Joni Mitchell's, for example. Would I be obligated to try not to sing the same kinds of songs that she sings. Do you have to differentiate yourself from such a person?

Jeff Hanson: Well, I think the thing that's interesting is you saying that our voices sound similar. That's where I see a complete difference. For me, kind of even when you said that, to me, I think that's the biggest difference out of anything. Other people can look at that however they want. It's not up to me to decide. But yeah, if you sounded exactly like Joni Mitchell, do you mean if people were asking you about it? Would you have to defend yourself?

Splendid: I don't know. I can't sing, so it doesn't really come up for me. But if I sounded naturally like someone else, would I try to sing different kinds of songs? It's probably not a fair question.

Jeff Hanson: (laughs) I don't know. Again, it's all in the listener. I would listen to it and say it doesn't sound the same, or think, wow, it's interesting that you would say our voices sound similar when I don't think that they do. That's me and it's up to anyone else to figure that out.

Splendid: Okay, that seems like a really good answer. Are you working on anything else -- other people's albums?

Jeff Hanson: No, just right now, I'm trying to get this touring stuff together. As I said before, I didn't tour with my last record, for whatever reasons, going through a bunch of different booking agents. Kind of being up and down. I just didn't get to tour as much as I wanted to or should have, for that matter. I just really want to make an effort to tour this album. There's a bunch of places I haven't played for my first album, and now it's the second one coming out. I really enjoy touring. I really enjoy playing live and I love playing my songs in front of people. I haven't been able to do that as much as I'd like.