Splendid: Glad to hear it. So there are five people officially in Dufus now, and eleven more in the Dufamily. What led to the trimming of Dufus's ranks, and what exactly is the Dufamily?

Seth Faergolzia: Yes, the present five-member form of Dufus is Seth Faergolzia (acoustic/vox), Rick Snell (electric), G. Lucas Crane (cassette jockey), Mark Ospovat (bass) and Strictly Beats (drums). We had to shrink the band down in order to tour, mainly. We were working with a number of people who had little experience making music, and rehearsals took a lot longer. The story with the Dufamily basically is that, at one point in creation, it was decided that anyone we knew could be in Dufus if they were willing to work on the songs with me. It taught me a lot about making music that people understand and can sing along with, but the weight of so many people was getting to be too much for me to bear. I do plan on bringing the Dufamily back in the future.

Splendid: Your songs have gotten really focused with Ball of Design. Is something different about your songwriting process than it was with 1:3:1, or was it the result of trimming the band?

Seth Faergolzia: You know, different times and circumstances bring out varied art. I saw the world situation shifting drastically and realized that we needed to reach as many people as possible in the simplest way so that our message would be easily digested.

Splendid: How do you know when a song is finished? At what point do you say, "Okay, there are enough sounds in this one." And were there any songs that just never quite finished -- that didn't make it onto the album?

Seth Faergolzia: A song is done when it feels done with me. As far as producing a song, we pretty much recorded most of the songs live or as we would perform it (with a couple of exceptions). "Pakistan Enellellope" was one of the unfinished ones from 1:3:1, actually. We recorded about two albums worth of material for that album. The one song we rejected for Ball of Design was "Balloon Rocking Chair", because the recording did didn't do it justice -- it's a very quiet and careful song that's difficult to pull off. I wish we had included it, because there really is nothing slow or quiet on there as it is.

Splendid: The really striking thing about Ball of Design is the way the production is basically invisible. The sound is really clean, but it has this nice organic feel. I was convinced for the duration of "Freedom" that it was a live recording. What kind of space did you record it in?

Seth Faergolzia: Yes, "Freedom" is primarily live, with a couple overdubs, but we did that 14 piece live recording at Emandee Recording House in Brooklyn, which is basically one live room with a number of baffles; it was quite an ordeal, believe me. Everything was sent into an analog machine, then flown into a computer for mixing, et cetera.

Splendid: It came out great, though. It seems like cheating, but since you're right here and all... what exactly is a ball of design?

Seth Faergolzia: There is a multiple-layered control structure in our world... government, corporation, entertainment industry, religion and education system. These structures are all working toward a similar goal because they are basically controlled by a small group of people. The governments are controlled by corporations, corporations have the money. The entertainment industry is controlled by the desires of the masses but also are manipulating the masses -- a symbiosis of sorts. The education system is mainly controlled by the government. Religion is not controlled by god. I wrote the song "Freedom", which contains the ball of design lyric, on the day the US Empire declared war on Iraq.

Splendid: Mm. I agree with that to an extent. I have trouble believing that it's as intentional and, well, designed as you seem to be saying, though. Something I generally ask when presented with that kind of point of view: what, precisely, do you suppose the ultimate motive of anybody trying to control the world is? Do they even need one?

Seth Faergolzia: Perhaps I did not explain myself clearly enough; what I meant by what I said about the power structure was that very few people are actually making these huge changes amongst us. They see humans as numbers, figures, statistics, et cetera. "They see ink on paper, not blood. They see numbers, not men." When the word "design" is used in the song, it speaks of a small group of people playing a game, strategizing methods, using their game pieces to expand their empires. It is ego, plain and simple, an ignorance which causes the fat-bellied taker to overfill his plate... he has no idea there are many (people) waiting patiently behind him, and he sets a precedent for the others toward the front. The ones in the back never even get to see the platter -- it has been torn apart and sold for scrap by the last of the middle. The rest are forced to scour the floor for crumbs. Their motive is gluttony, straight up.

Splendid: A chaotic system seems a bit more plausible. What is the number one benefit of wearing a "clothestume"? (Readers -- think "clothes" + "costume")

Seth Faergolzia: They are the most comfortable clothes ever, besides PJs.

Splendid: You say in "Wrinkle" that your goal in life is now to make other people happier. What are three simple ways that you and I and everybody can make each other happier?

Seth Faergolzia: You ask good tough questions, Mike. Thank you for challenging me.

1) Listen more than you speak.
2) Give more than you take.
3) Direct your thinking toward understanding that every experience is a gift.

Splendid: I really love the metaphor used in "Civil War" -- describing our military (and, to an extent, our society) as divided equally between zombies and relics of the Civil War. Something I found really terrifying is that when you look at a map showing which states are "blue" and which states are "red", it matches up almost perfectly with maps from the civil war -- the slave states are pretty much purely Republican. The others are Democrat. (Editor's note: It's a lovely idea, but take it with a pinch of salt. Here's the Snopes.com rundown on that phenomenon.) Sometimes it seems like nothing really changes. Do you think that's true?

Seth Faergolzia: Yeah, I've seen those maps. We are in a different world, for certain, and if you looked at maps of this continent before non-natives moved in, I'm sure it would look different. Things do change; they are in flux constantly. It's a tough call 'cuz I see what you're saying and sometimes agree that the situation we're in now is the same as what was going on when Rome took by force or when England took by force... it grieves me. The difference between now and then is that the world community is becoming more aware; the collective unconscious is becoming more conscious through heightened communication capabilities. Plus our environment is becoming less and less stable, meaning circumstances must change or else.

Splendid: Yeah, point and match about the native peoples. I think you've pinpointed exactly what excites me most about American culture right now, too -- it seems like there's a real awakening going on, even if right now it's mainly at the fringes. This was the year of the independent film and indie labels are getting better at promoting their bands to an increasingly open-minded audience every year. Where do you think this is going?

Seth Faergolzia: Full on reawakening of the dormant spirit within each and every one of us. I truly believe this, down to the most idiotic and blinded murderer... there will be a vast and sweeping change through a strategic positioning of subtle forces. Revolution happens in a whisper.

Splendid: I wish I could be as optimistic as that. But it sounds good! Something funny about Ball of Design is that it has its dark moments, but it's generally a much brighter album than 1:3:1 was. And yet it's explicitly political, and politics have gotten much, much uglier in the space between these albums. Is there an aspect of protest to the album's sunny mood?

Seth Faergolzia: I was spray painting "Pro-test" after the most recent election. My belief is that the best form of protest is to take part in activities and mentalities which hold no regard toward the mass belief system. I feel that if I project positivity it can help people, but if I dig into my problems (as was the case with much of 1:3:1) it will only help in that people with problems can relate and dig in further.

Splendid: I dig what you're saying about "Pro-test", but at the same time, isn't there a risk that we will detach ourselves excessively from contemporary society and render ourselves powerless to change its course? That this will become escapism rather than active problem solving?

Seth Faergolzia: Totally. I keep myself informed on what's going on as much as I can, though I do feel that taking part in it can have its tantalizations as well; sometimes it seems to me like the whole world of humans is becoming tainted with the hue of advertisement, like avoiding advertisement isn't enough, like reading the underground news publications only sheds partial light upon the core of what is happening. It brings us into the details and particulars of one situation when what is before us is something that has existed in our world for all of recorded history. Taking part in the system to attempt to destroy it is admirable, but if you're not ready for the hugeness of it, get ready for bandwagonhood. For solutions, it is often necessary for one to sit on a hill and think. This does not disconnect one from the happenings of the world; on the contrary, it brings you closer to understanding your own singular position. Without an understanding of self, without a solution within, you will not be able to offer anything positive to the world environment.

Splendid: I understand from an interview you gave that you've written some books?

Seth Faergolzia: I've written two novels. The more recent one is called Beesa and His Amazing Maps. It's about a webwork of rooms created by the collective subconscious of all the worlds in our universe. I'm also working on a collection of poetry and short stories.

Splendid: Is the writing thing something you would like to go deeper into, or is it just kind of a fun way to spend an afternoon?

Seth Faergolzia: I prefer to spend all of my time in the creation of various forms of art, though I have decidedly focused my efforts on musical endeavors.

Splendid: I feel like a really fuckin' efficient hipster because I knew about Dina Kelberman a long time before Ball of Design came out. But that's because I'm a webcomics geek. I never would have associated her art with your music, but seeing the two together, it makes perfect sense. Do you know how she ended up doing the art for your album?

Seth Faergolzia: Dina is a good friend of mine for a number of years now. We planned this thing for quite a while. Good to know you know of her; she's one of my favorite artists, and she blew me away with the artwork for this album.

Splendid: I'm doing the college thing now. You did it, too. How was your school? Mine's for rich kids. I'm not loving the rich kids.

Seth Faergolzia: That's actually where I met Dina, Purchase College. It was one of my favorite experiences. When we were there, there was an amazing amount of collaboration and inspiration throughout the community we were involved in.

Splendid: You've talked with other journalists about an unusual open mic night event called "The Cave". I thought it was a really intriguing idea. Describe the format and the most intense single time you spent there.

Seth Faergolzia: Yeah, "The Cave" was amazing. There were no rules. There was a mic, sometimes people would use it, sometimes not. No sign up, you just got up there, if you were too timid, too bad. People were allowed to do whatever they wanted. Sometimes someone would get up on the drum kit and start playing with you even if you didn't want them to. My favorite experience from that would probably be when I came in and there were no lights on -- this actually happened a couple of times. Some people would get pissed off 'cause they came out to play their acoustic guitar songs, but that didn't matter. I don't know if you've sat in a pitch black room with a bunch of artists for three hours before, but some amazing things come out.

Splendid: Dare I ask what sorts of amazing things came out?

Seth Faergolzia: It's fairly unspeakable. Inspired moments, you know? Hard to describe exactly what was cool about the party you went to that had an amazing vibe, it was just cool.

Splendid: What was the last thought you had that seemed really profound at the time, but later embarrassed you?

Seth Faergolzia: I thought for a while that I was to be the leader of a cult. It is ridiculous to me now; I don't believe in leaders.

Splendid: I give up. Google gives up. What, who or where is Pakistan Enellellope?

Seth Faergolzia: You'd like to know, wouldn't you?

Splendid:Well, clearly I would. But... mystery! Anyway: Something that seemed to throw a lot of listeners for a loop in 1:3:1 is the way you had all these silly, twisted, bizarre songs, and then there's "Deepr in Love", which was this carefully orchestrated, ridiculously intense epic love song which was so earnest that nobody could actually seem to believe you meant it. Personally, I took the song at face value. Is it "just a love song", or was there really a joke in there somewhere?

Seth Faergolzia: No jokes. That song was written at a huge moment in my life about a very special person. I hear what you're saying. I don't believe in following a format or being tied to one form. I felt to write that song and did, made it as beautiful as I could. A majority of my life at the time reflected the circumstances of the album; that was just one facet.

Splendid: You've said that comparisons of your work to Frank Zappa don't quite make sense to you because of his promotion of virtuosic performers as opposed to your notoriously populist approach -- using friends with absolutely no training, letting the audience jump up on stage and howl along, et cetera. Why do you think it's important for music in specific to take a populist viewpoint?

Seth Faergolzia: I appreciate Zappa's work; I just wish to make something more welcoming. Of course, Dufus could take that path, but I feel like I would be hoarding the music in a way. I come from a family of music teachers -- perhaps that is part of why it is done this way. Plus, I find, in listening to untrained music, there is a certain looseness to the rhythm and intonation which intrigues me.

Splendid: One of the other writers at Splendid said something a few months ago that has really haunted me. She said that really, there isn't much rock being made by people who aren't trying to get laid right now. This really bothered me, because there are a lot of risks you're not willing to take when you're worried about whether it's going to turn off the opposite sex. You have to look cool, sound cool. And you're a young guy, but you take those risks anyway. I really appreciate that. Where does the confidence that requires come from?

Seth Faergolzia: I've had plenty of sex. It's not as interesting to me as knowing someone deeply, I mean getting to know people, learning what they have to say and think about. Seeing their art to me is much more important. I know, a lot of the choices I have made as an artist have set me off to the side; some of the things we've done in Dufus have made it impossible to be massively appealing (take, for example, our name), but the artistic statement actually makes a difference, an invisible change sending waves through the system.

Splendid: I think the fact that you can say stuff like that and actually mean it is what really appeals to me, and a lot of people, in your work. I think you're actually making things happen. What is the thing that gives you the most hope, or the most faith, that you (and I, and anybody) can change things in a real way?

Seth Faergolzia: Actually seeing it happen over time gives me the most hope. I have felt so inspired by the Guitar Situations, a band who just had their last show here in New York. The main concept, as I think I understand it, is that when they do their writing they do it in a totally equal way; there is no one in control, but all are in control. They make completely collaborative music and -- AND! -- they write new music for every show they play. It's just great. I saw it born. Friends made it happen; they had an idea and put it into motion; they did it the best they could and lived as an example for others. Incredible. This inspires me to no end. When I get to see this or anything like it, people humbling themselves and making it work the way they think it truly should for the betterment of all, that's when I have hope. Of course, with my work, I gain hope every time someone drops me an email to say a song inspired them in one way or another, or when people move at a show, scream from the back, make eye contact or sing along in the front. It's all inspiration to me, every moment, every inch of space, every dot of pigment. I could go on forever and will.

Splendid: What is the single most important band making music at this time, in your mind?

Seth Faergolzia: I can't answer that. I have been digging the sounds of Cerberus Shoal, Need New Body, Hella and Guitar Situations, just to name a few.

Splendid: What is the band no longer playing that has made the biggest difference for you, personally and musically?

Seth Faergolzia: I like the Grateful Dead a whole lot. Used to dislike their music and was ashamed to even be interested in them, but I enjoy the fact that they built up such a community around them, though I don't appreciate how drug oriented it all was. I have more recently become interested in their music as well -- they were good musicians.

Splendid: What is the best dance move ever, and who will it impress?

Seth Faergolzia: The arm swing hip-slap. It would impress all of the Dufamily.

Splendid: Dude. I can do that. You've talked a lot about this sort of imaginary distinction between the natural world and human beings -- and for that matter, human creations, which would make a really interesting context for an electronic album. Have you ever considered just making something on your laptop or whatever?

Seth Faergolzia: Yeah, I've been meaning to learn how to play this sampler I've got. Believe me, it's in the works. I love electronic music; mostly experimental drum and bass reaches me. I'm sure within the next year or two something will be completed and released under the name NRJIBOM.

Splendid: There's way more stuff in Noel Honig's "Dufus" video than the viewer is ever going to see. Every time I pause it I notice something new. What are the coolest and most interesting things he snuck in that you know of?

Seth Faergolzia: I like that he attached my face to JFK's bust. You can actually go through it frame by frame. There is a whole lot in there. We're working on a new vid for "Wrinkle".

Splendid: I understand that you've stopped watching television. I don't think most people understand what a profound step this is to take. I've accidentally stopped almost completely myself in the past few months, because I have to commute to school and I just don't have time for the TV. I've noticed I've felt more and more out of step with other people, like I'm from another world. What's it been like for you? Is there one really surreal result that sticks out?

Seth Faergolzia: Wow, my eyes have just opened up to so much. I don't feel bored all the time; life is actually exciting. I have quite an aversion to anything with advertisement, like one of the people I live with bought a name-brand cracker, and its packaging catches my eye so much that I put it in a cabinet so I don't see it. Imagine life with mind control and then life without, that's where I'm at now.

Splendid: Name one simple pleasure you can't live without.

Seth Faergolzia: Sauerkraut.

Splendid: Name one song you never get tired of.

Seth Faergolzia: "Small Axe" by Bob Marley.

Splendid: Name one question I should have asked, pretend I did ask it, and answer it in the most spiteful way possible.

Seth Faergolzia: "Seth, may I please send you a check for $3000?" Of course you can, you fuckin' jerk.